VIDEO: The Agent Inside

'The Agent Inside'

21 April 2025

Four Corners

VIEWER ADVICE: This program contains antisemitic, Islamophobic and homophobic language and depictions of violence.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: This man is in hiding. He's about to reveal his identity, as a former spy for Australia who infiltrated a dangerous network of terrorists and extremists.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: I worked for ASIO as an undercover agent for about six years, to discover any potential attacks or plots that may target Australians.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: He helped prevent attacks and save lives, at a huge personal cost.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: I lived two lives. One normal life. As my family they have no idea. And I lived another life with targets, with extremist people.

TORE HAMMING, FORMER ANALYST, DANISH SECURITY AND INTELLIGENCE SERVICE: Hearing about a case of infiltration like this is obviously mind blowing.

MIKE BURGESS, DIRECTOR-GENERAL, ASIO: Human sources have been central to our success…their secret work protects Australians' safety, security and prosperity.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER:, REPORTER: The secret agent cultivated a notorious preacher, who's been free to peddle his influence for decades…

WISAM HADDAD: If you attack Allah… then you are going to be met with men who love death more than you love life.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: And whose young followers are accused of a new wave of terrorism and hate crimes.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: What do you say to those who accuse you of being a leader in a community of violent extremists?

WISAM HADDAD: If I am a leader of violent extremism, if that was the case, why aren't I in jail?

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER:, REPORTER: Intelligence agencies warn a shocking number of teenagers are now being radicalised in Australia and internationally the Islamic State terrorist group is reawakening. For the first time, we take you inside the extremist network growing in the suburbs of Sydney and across the world. We uncover how authorities missed critical red flags in the lead-up to Australia's first jihadist attack in years…

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: It could be prevented, and the consequences that happened could be avoided.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: And we reveal the extraordinary risks one man's taken to keep Australians safe.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Are you ready?

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: Yeah.

TITLE: THE AGENT INSIDE

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: A 16-year-old boy approaches a church in Sydney with a plan for violence. Inside, the church is live streaming a sermon by a controversial bishop to thousands of followers. The bishop has been a hated target of Sydney's jihadist community for years.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: The stabbing of Assyrian Orthodox Bishop Mar Mari Emmanuel in Wakeley went viral. His supporters rushed to the church.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: As the boy was pinned down inside, he had a message for his victim.

UPSOT BOY ON GROUND: He insulted the prophet. I wouldn't have come here if he didn't involve himself in my religion.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: On the other side of the world, a man saw the attack on the news. He recognised the boy in the video… and decided he could no longer be silent about what he knew… so he contacted me.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: What happened should be known. There is public benefit to describe exactly why what happened, happened.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: After months we've verified he has accurate information that only someone on the inside could know.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Ok, safe travels. It's happening. It's too risky to meet in Australia.

AIRLINE ATTENDANT: Welcome to London, where the local time is six twenty-two in the morning.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: So I know this is a big step for you. But can you tell us your name and what you did in Australia?

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: My alias is eh Marcus. I worked for ASIO as an undercover agent for about ah six years. I was pretending I am an extremist. I was pretending I was supporter of ISIL, ISIS.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Marcus posed as an extremist imam to infiltrate supporters of the Islamic State terrorist group in Sydney. He worked with Australia's spy agency ASIO until 2023.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: You're taking very serious risks by doing this interview?

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: Honestly like ah I have a concern regarding my safety, my family, my children as well.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: You're risking your life now to take this stand though aren't you?

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: Yes. Kind of.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: At the time of this interview Marcus was preparing to move to a safe and secret location. We're withholding his real name and home country. for his family's safety. He's also risking jail time for speaking about ASIO's work.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: The work that ASIO does is built on secrecy. Some might say that you're undermining that work by speaking out, by speaking to us. How do you respond?

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: What is the purpose of intelligence? To protect public security. This will really make a difference and that that will help many people to understand the danger of extremism.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: How do you think people who've known you for all these years, your targets, your loved ones, how will they take this news?

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: It will be such a big surprise. They will never ever like thought who I am stand — now sitting in front of the camera and telling my story.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: In the secretive world of intelligence we can't verify exactly how Marcus started out as a spy. We know he was recruited from overseas and we've been able to confirm most of his extraordinary story with the help of court documents, open-source intelligence, counter-terrorism contacts, and people in his targets' community.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Marcus' mission to infiltrate the jihadist network officially began in 2017 when he landed in Sydney with his wife and children.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: My officers were waiting for me. They told me we've prepared everything for you, your house, furniture, everything. And even my children enrolment. And they gave me phones with number. So we started contacted after that and we started from there.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Marcus's young family started a new life in Australia… His cover story was that he came to find work as an imam and study early childhood education.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: I lived two lives. One normal life. As my family they have no idea. They don't know anything about this job at all. And I lived another life with targets, with extremist people. And I had to keep balance between those lives.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: In secret, he was summoned to meetings with ASIO. He says officers trailed him along the way.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: They showed me photos for targets. They told me eh to build relationship with those targets. And slowly, slowly my web became bigger and bigger. I spent sometimes months with some targets to gain their trust. So it was not easy at all.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Marcus would spend years pursuing extremist leader Wisam Haddad, known to his followers as Abu Ousayd.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: How important was Abu Ousayd to you and to ASIO as a target?

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: They look at him as he's the most important eh jihadist, extremist, preacher, sheikh, eh in Sydney.

WISAM HADDAD: If you attack Allah, if you attack our prophet, our religion, our fellow brothers and sisters, and if you attack our land, then you are going to be met with men who love death more than you love life.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Wisam Haddad has been at the centre of Australia's jihadist network for most of his adult life. We've mapped his close ties to a web of recruiters, terrorist cells, radical prayer groups and foreign fighters. He first hit the headlines more than a decade ago, at a violent protest with notorious terrorists, like Khaled Sharrouf and Mohamed Elomar. They would later shock the world with atrocities in Syria, with Haddad's public backing on social media. They were all mainstays at Haddad's radical bookstore, the Al Risalah Islamic Centre, where preachers recruited followers to fight with terrorist groups in Syria.

ABU SULAYMAN: They are calling day and night for us to support them with our wealth, our blood, with whatever we possess.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Haddad's centre set up a preaching group… called "Street Dawah". Police discovered some Street Dawah members were recruiting teenagers for a terrorist cell, which plotted attacks…including the shooting murder of a police accountant in Parramatta by a 15-year-old. Haddad has never been charged with terrorism related offences, but authorities consider him so dangerous, he's forbidden from owning guns…and courts have banned many convicted terrorists from communicating with him.

DAVID GAWEL, FORMER COUNTER-TERRORISM DETECTIVE, NSW POLICE: He's a very clever individual. He's aware of the parameters in which he can operate under. He's aware of the parameters and limitations of the law. And he's, he's also aware of what is and isn't acceptable in relation to what would cause or constitute an offence and what doesn't.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: Abu Ousayd is very smart. Ah it's not easy to get his trust. He doubts everyone, doubts everything. He's very eh closed person. He has eh leadership skills, high, high level.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: For years, preachers in Haddad's network have radicalised young followers in secret prayer groups. Haddad sits atop a network of preachers who radicalise young followers in secret prayer groups. It was Marcus' task to infiltrate them. High on the list was Haddad's closest protege, self-styled sheikh and media provocateur, Junaid Thorne…

JUNAID THORNE: Look at other parts of the world, our sisters, our sisters being raped by these filthy Jews and Christians.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Marcus says Thorne confided in him that he was indoctrinating followers using official Islamic State textbooks.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: ISIL, that time, used to teach this book to their fighters in their camps training in Iraq and Syria. So when he showed me that book I showed him like I'm so proud, that's very nice, I reported that to ASIO.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Marcus says ASIO launched a sting to get him inside the study group. He says he set up a sham education centre in his home … and convinced Thorne to enlist him as religious teacher and leader.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: I make classroom and started teaching them and they became very, very comfortable. And those students were under my monitoring. I was very close to them. I used to see them more than my family.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: He would discover members of his study circle worked with senior echelons of the Islamic State group across the world. One pupil, 21-year-old Radwan Dakkak, helped run a prolific media group called Ahlut Tawhid Publications, or ATP, led by an American known only as Abu Hamza. ATP churned out propaganda including a weekly newsletter.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: This newsletter used to share eh techniques of ah attack in Western countries from ISIL, how to make bombs. It was easily reached online unfortunately and that helped unfortunately also to radicalise people around the world.

TORE HAMMING, FORMER ANALYST, DANISH SECURITY & INTELLIGENCE SERVICE: From 2017 until 2021, the Ahlut Tawhid publications network, ATP, was the most important pro-Islamic state online network around. Radwan Dakkak from Australia appears to have played a very central role in, uh, making the network so prominent. These guys are incredibly difficult to identify and to strike because they work so secretive.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Marcus says Dakkak invited him into the ATP leadership group, as his 'ustadh', a respected teacher or spiritual leader. It was in this encrypted chat group that Marcus met ATP BOSS Abu Hamza.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: I spent like years in this group discovering his ah job, his organisation. Every meeting eh ASIO officers used to take eh screenshots from my phone about eh Ahlut-Tawhid, about any new member. I used to speak with him privately. And he trusted me. And he used to call me Ustadh as well. Eh so that showed me he respected me.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: He says Abu Hamza was the key to entering a global network from his Sydney home. Inviting him into chat group after chat group involving senior terrorists in Syria and around the world. According to Marcus, the intelligence was so valuable, it was shared with the CIA and MI6.

TORE HAMMING, FORMER ANALYST, DANISH SECURITY & INTELLIGENCE SERVICE: Hearing about a case of infiltration like this is obviously mind blowing. Having a person who is really at the centre of these networks, having the trust of these people is just absolutely crucial and in the end, it's something that can prevent terrorism from taking place in countries like Australia.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Another student, Isaac El Matari, was plotting with contacts in Lebanon to import guns and explosives, according to Marcus. On a drive late one night, Matari shared a chilling plan.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: He told me he want to start an ah guerilla war eh to establish an eh Islamic State ah like authority in the Blue Mountains area.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER:: So he told you he wants to do a guerilla war in Australia?

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: Yes. Yes. I was shocked, um. Honestly I couldn't look at him when he was speaking.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Matari declared himself the Islamic State group's Australian commander. He hatched grandiose plans to attack police, courts and Sydney's St Mary's Cathedral.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: I parked on front of ah my house and I sent message to my officer. I gave him a report. Eh (gulps) I cried in my car. Eh then I entered my home. My family was sleeping. So I eh like I couldn't sleep this night.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Two years into Marcus' Australian mission… police arrested members of Marcus's study circle. Radwan Dakkak and Isaac El Matari were jailed for terrorism offences. Junaid Thorne was eventually convicted of supplying drugs, which Marcus says funded terrorism. The F-B-I later captured Abu Hamza … an American called Benjamin Carpenter… who was jailed for 20 years. According to Marcus, his intelligence would ultimately help authorities arrest at least six Australian members of the study group.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: They were very happy of my work. They used to tell me that eh we are so proud we having you, you are our ears, you're our eyes.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: His double life as a spy and a spiritual leader to the young men was starting to take a toll.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: I was so sad because, I tried my best as well to advise them to turn away, to move away, when I found out they are going to do what they wanted to do. But I had to say it in wise and smart way. But unfortunately some of them they didn't listen, so they must be stopped.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Marcus' next ASIO mission was to get close to the man at the centre of Australia's pro-Islamic State network, Wisam Haddad or Abu Ousayd.

He'd been on ASIO's radar for years and was now opening a new prayer centre.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: Some of my targets were ah affected by ah Abu Ousayd's teaching.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Are you suggesting he radicalised them?

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: Yes. They became extremist eh against they attended, after they attended ah Al Madina Dawah Centre and been exposed to the speech and the lessons.

BROTHER ISMAIL : Muslims they starving for Jihad. Their hearts are aching for Jihad, they can't wait to be amongst the mujahideen.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: At Al Madina Dawah Centre in Bankstown, Haddad and his preachers deliver hateful lectures quoting religious passages.

WISAM HADDAD: Towards the end of times when the Muslims will be fighting the Jews, the trees will speak, the stones will speak, and they will say: 'Oh Muslim, oh believer, there is a Yahudi (Jew) behind me, come and kill him.'

WISAM HADDAD: We do not hide from the fact that homosexuality under the shari'a — after being judged with the Quran and the sunnah by an Islamic judge, in an Islamic court, in Islamic lands — is punishable by death.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Marcus was there from the early days, as an imam and leader.

MARCUS (UPSOT): We praise him, we thank him, and we seek refuge with Allah from the evils of ourselves and from our bad deeds…

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: As he helped build the centre's following, he says he witnessed Haddad's preachers indoctrinating teenagers.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: Like ah I told ASIO, you think you are in an ISIL camp in Syria or in Iraq. Eh same the materials of ISIL, videos, the songs of ISILs. They are aware about all this information.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: You said events at Al Madina Dawah Centre were like an ISIS training camp for young people.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: Yep.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: To reach more young people, Haddad set up a new street preaching venture, The Dawah Van…

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Social media videos show how Marcus became one of Haddad's Dawah Van crew. The group sought to convert new followers while presenting a peaceful image. According to Marcus, Haddad only spoke in code to his followers about Islamic State… and on at least one occasion, offered carefully worded advice.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: He told them, if you want to do something, don't come to me, don't tell anyone, keep your secret, if you believe it, and you are ha- you are happy with this, and you think you are doing good job, and you think you are doing the jihad, go do it, don't be an easy target so that you will be stopped and jailed for long time.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: You said you heard him say to his followers if you want to do something — i.e. something violent — don't tell me, just do it.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: Yes.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: At the same time Marcus discovered Haddad was working with one of the biggest radicalisers in the international jihad, Anjem Choudary, in the UK.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: Abu Ousayd looked at Anjem Choudary as like his big brother. He give a lot of eh advice to copy like ah his eh experience into Australian community. He said he's our sheikh and we should learn from him.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Anjem Choudary was the leader of an influential jihadist movement, Al Muhajiroun or ALM. From its early days in London, Al Muhajiroun built a following through street preaching and divisive protests.

ANJEM CHOUDARY : Whoever insults the prophet, kill him!

DOMINIC MURPHY, COUNTER-TERRORISM COMMANDER, MET POLICE, UK: Anjem Choudary has been the voice of radicalisation in the UK for many years. A constant presence in a number of individuals' radicalisation journey to get to a point where they felt they needed to go and conduct a terrorist attack.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: In 2005 as the threat of terrorism reached new heights, the group was banned in the U-K… but followers shocked the world with attacks…

and atrocities…. for years to come.

TORE HAMMING, FOMER ANALYST, DANISH SECURITY & INTELLIGENCE SERVICE: Al Muhajiroun is undoubtedly the most important extremist network we have seen in the West ever. They developed a whole new way of Islamic activism in the west. We saw that groups were popping up around Europe and around the globe with connections to Anjem and the ALM network.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Among those connections was Wisam Haddad. Marcus says in 2021, Haddad invited him to a secret WhatsApp group with Choudary.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: The purpose behind that was, he's going to help us massively, like to help Abu Ousayd's centre be bigger and more active.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Marcus was reporting it all to his ASIO handlers. He says Choudary advised Haddad on how to radicalise Australians and build a community that only obeyed Sharia law… street by street… suburb by suburb.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: The project that Anjem Choudary has, if you couldn't go overseas to like to join Islamic caliphate, you need to establish your own one.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: While working with Choudary, Haddad rapidly expanded Madina Dawah Centre and turbocharged his social media presence. He targeted children with a Saturday school … and online competitions for the young faithful. There was a new fight gym … and events for the whole family. Haddad also launched an A-L-M scripted anti-democracy campaign. And he spoke at online conferences with Choudary.

ANJEM CHOUDARY: I'm calling for the sharia wherever you are, calling for the liberation of Muslim land.

LONDON POLICE: Stand back, please. Stand back. Stand back. Stand back. Stand back.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Anjem Choudary was arrested in London in 2023,

POLICE UPSOT: Show me your hands, please. Come over here. Come over here. Come over here. Oh my God.

ANJEM CHOUDARY: What are you doing?

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: An undercover investigation into Choudary's connections with a group in the U-S caught him admitting he was leading an international terrorist organisation.

LONDON POLICE: Anjem, I am arresting you under Section 41 of the Terrorism Act 2000 as I suspect that you are a terrorist and involved in the commission, preparation and instigation of acts of terrorism.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Choudary has been jailed for life and is appealing the conviction. Police in Australia wouldn't tell us whether they investigated Choudary's operations here and his connection to Wisam Haddad.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Despite intense monitoring of Wisam Haddad and his network, authorities have been too late to intervene to rescue young Australians from being radicalised, or worse: prevent an attack. In April last year, the near killing of Bishop Mar Mari Emmanuel delivered a chilling message — jihadist terrorism was back. The 16-year-old attacker can't be identified because he's a juvenile. The morning after the attack, while he was under guard in hospital, NSW Police said he'd never been on the counter terrorism radar.

KAREN WEBB, NSW POLICE COMMISSIONER: I think the important thing here is that he wasn't known to us from a terrorism point of view he was not on any terror watch… this individual has come to our attention in this manner.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: If the teenager wasn't known to counter-terrorism authorities, he should have been. At the time of the attack, he was in a group chat with dangerous extremists. We don't know when the boy joined, but Marcus says he first warned ASIO about the group chat called' BROTHERHOOD', two years before the stabbing.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: I was like so angry honestly. Like why this ah happened. They should stop it. I provided them from the beginning specific information about people who are speaking violently against the Bishop.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Marcus says that in 2022 he showed ASIO messages from the 'BROTHERHOOD' group in which extremists urged revenge against the Bishop for insulting the Prophet Muhammad.

BISHOP MAR MARI EMMANUEL: Mohammed is dead and rotted in the grave…Satan will not attack Mohammed because he won him long ago…

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Marcus says the 'BROTHERHOOD' group had scores of members, including leaders from Al Madina Dawah Centre. He remembers people sharing the Bishop's photo and location … and calling for an attack, like the 2015 massacre targeting France's Charlie Hebdo magazine.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: There were like several comments encouraging doing something like this towards the Bishop. This is how mujahideen deal with those who attacked our Prophet, this will shut him up, this will cut his tongue off.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: We only have Marcus' account of what happened in his meetings with ASIO. But, counter-terrorism sources have confirmed to us authorities did have intelligence about the threats in the 'BROTHERHOOD' group from mid-2022.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: Multiple times, I showed them messages on my phone. I used to send them screenshots as well, with ah with contacts of people who posted those ah posts.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Later in 2022, ASIO lowered Australia's official terrorism threat level, claiming that the influence and capability of jihadist groups had diminished. Marcus says the threats against Bishop Emmanuel continued.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: Because at the end of 2022 the level of threat against Australia lowered down from probable to possible. So they became less interested, less interest in unfortunately in my messages and my warning.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: So do you believe ASIO and the counter-terrorism authorities listened to your warnings?

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: No, I don't think so.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: He left Australia in mid-2023. But Marcus's intelligence wasn't the only red flag before the attack by the 16-year-old boy. We've discovered he was associating with two known extremists from the 'BROTHERHOOD' group.

He was arrested with one of those extremists, a teenager, after an incident at Liverpool train station, less than five months before the stabbing. The pair chased rail workers, while the extremist was wielding a hunting knife. Police had a long intelligence file on the teenage extremist. Years earlier, they locked up his father for fighting in Syria. What's more, the teenager was on the authorities' radar as part of a state government de-radicalisation program… run in co-ordination with NSW police.

PETA LOWE, FORMER DIRECTOR, COUNTERING VIOLENT EXTREMISM, YOUTH JUSTICE NSW: it's very hard for me to believe that, uh, we aren't, we haven't learned from our mistakes of the past in terms of the connectedness of groups of people, especially young people.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Peta Lowe ran de-radicalisation programs in the juvenile justice system. She says the Wakeley attacker's relationship with a known extremist was crucial intelligence for authorities to assess any future risk.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: What should have been done? What would the standard protocol have been?

PETA LOWE, FORMER DIRECTOR, COUNTERING VIOLENT EXTREMISM, YOUTH JUSTICE NSW: I would've expected that he would've been engaged in some sort of conversation, in some sort of level of assessment and in some sort of intervention.

WISAM HADDAD: So you ready to become a Muslim? Bro you ready to become a Muslim?

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: The second extremist the Wakeley attacker was associating with is seen here in a green t-shirt… alleged Islamic State recruiter Wassim Fayad. He's looking for new followers with Wis

am Haddad and the Dawah Van crew. Fayad has been identified by police as one of Australia's most dangerous extremists highest priority counter terrorism targets. They named him more than a decade ago as a member of a terror cell that recruited teenagers for attacks…

UPSOT VIDEO: Now repeat after me in English. I bear witness. And I testify. That there is no god worthy of worship. Except Allah.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: He's a violent convicted criminal and was also part of the BROTHERHOOD chat group.

UPSOT VIDEO: That means glory be to God, we are accepting you and now you are our brother. Any other takers?

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Sources have told us that despite tight monitoring of Fayad, authorities didn't pick up on his connection with the Wakeley attacker until after the stabbing.

AHU KOCAK, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST, CORRECTIVE SERVICES NSW (FMR) : Well, from the information you're telling me at face value, it sounds like it, there, there was opportunity to, to prevent and disrupt that. I'm not sure if there was anything offered to these individuals at the time, but if there wasn't, then that's definitely something that needs to be reviewed.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: In counter-terrorism, our agencies face a constant challenge: to distinguish between what they call 'chatter' and specific threats. But by the time of the Wakeley stabbing there were clear warning signs about the attacker… He was in an extremist chat group which had canvassed an attack on the bishop for years. The boy was associating with a member of that chat group, who was one of Australia's highest priority counter-terrorism targets, and a recruiter in Wisam Haddad's network. Perhaps most astonishingly of all, the 16-year-old was arrested by NSW police with another member of the 'BROTHERHOOD' group, a known extremist on a deradicalisation program, over a knife incident. What we don't know is how much of this intelligence was shared between the agencies we trust to prevent an attack. We asked ASIO, the NSW Police and Australian Federal Police, but they wouldn't tell us. What's clear is that they acted quickly swiftly after the stabbing.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: In the weeks after the Wakeley stabbing, police launched raids on an alleged terrorist network involving members of the 'BROTHERHOOD' chat.

KRISSY BARRETT, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, NATIONAL SECURITY, AUSTRALIAN FEDERAL POLICE: We identified links between the alleged offender and a network of associates and peers who we believe shared a similar violent extremist ideology.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Several were young followers of Wisam Haddad, like the teenager who took this selfie at the Al Madina Dawah Centre and captioned it, "new dawla [or Islamic State] recruit". He was charged with conspiring with three boys to plan a terrorist attack on targets including Jews. Other members of their group are accused of luring and bashing gay people as a twisted religious punishment. Wassim Fayad and the teenage extremist from Liverpool station were also questioned but not charged.After the raids, I interviewed the parents of the Wakeley attacker.

PARENT: My son is not terrorist. He just turned 16. How would be a terrorist? My son have a problem and only he needs help.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: When Marcus saw the interview, their anguish brought back memories of families who lost their children to extremism. He recognised their son from Al Madina Dawah Centre.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: I knew the reaction and the suffering that his family and their mums had. That made me sad. So I hoped they stop it. I saw the interview. It broke my heart. [crying] And also when [ahem] like when I saw like the riots… This shouldn't happen in Sydney as a multicultural place — Sorry. Just a second. [walks off]

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Why do you think it is this that makes you so upset?

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: Because it could be prevented, and the consequences that happened could be avoided.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: NSW Police and the AFP declined to respond to our questions, including whether the attack could have been prevented, because they said the matters were before the courts or under investigation. Only ASIO provided a response, saying "the insinuation [it] would not act on intelligence about a terrorist attack is as false as it is offensive".

WISAM HADDAD: A one-eyed dajjal (translation: deceiver / imposter / antichrist) who by day and night attacks Islam…

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: If Haddad is afraid of the glare of authorities, he doesn't show it. In fact, he seems to revel in it.

WISAM HADDAD (UPSOT): This Khabeeth (evil man), this putrid individual…

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: After the stabbing, instead of condemning the maiming of Bishop Emmanuel… he provoked his followers to anger… declaring the Bishop an enemy of Allah.

WISAM HADDAD: To this bishop, and anyone like him, we openly say we have not and will not forget your insults, your lies and your slander against our religion and our beloved Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam…

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Haddad continues to seek new followers through his Dawah Van group, a government registered charity. He agreed to speak with us while preaching at Sydney's Town Hall.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: What do you say to those though who accuse you of being a leader in a community of violent extremists?

WISAM HADDAD: If I am a leader of violent extremism, why is it that people on the grapevine are saying these words, but law enforcement dunno don't have the same information. So either the people who are speaking in this way know more than law enforcement or law enforcement doesn't know what it's doing. Which of the two is it?

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Aren't you inciting people to violence?

WISAM HADDAD: No, there are, it's re- it's reminding people that don't come near our prophet, don't insult our prophet.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Haddad insists he has nothing to do with the U-K terror group, Al Muhajiroun, but calls its jailed leader, Anjem Choudary, a brother who speaks the truth.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: I'm asking you, are you participating in his organisation?

WISAM HADDAD: I look, you are more participating, uh, in the lies against him. And if I wa if I was particip, if I was involved with any criminal activity or terrorist activity, I'm pretty sure we've got a better, uh, security system than reporters and I'd be arrested.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: You've previously expressed your support Islamic State. Do you still support —

WISAM HADDAD: Support for the concept of the Islamic state? Of course.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Do you still support Islamic State, the group?

WISAM HADDAD: Does it exist? I thought that its, they've been defeated.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: What, what would happen if you said you didn't support them on camera?

WISAM HADDAD: Next, next, uh, question.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: We later put further questions to Wisam Haddad including, whether he… is recruiting young people… and leads a pro-Islamic state network. He says he refutes and denies all inferences and implications in our message and has received legal advice to not engage.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Frustrated by a lack of police action against Haddad, Australia's peak Jewish organisation is suing him for racial vilification. Australian governments have also beefed up hate speech and terrorism laws… But the laws are unlikely to capture Haddad's violent message, dressed up as lessons in religion.

TORE HAMMING, FORMER ANALYST, DANISH INTELLIGENCE & SECURITY SERVICE: This guy has never really been convicted of anything serious . I think that's, uh, extremely telling in and of itself.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Former intelligence analyst Tore Hamming says there could be a strategy behind Haddad's continued freedom.

TORE HAMMING, FORMER ANALYST, DANISH INTELLIGENCE & SECURITY SERVICE: I would greatly benefit from having a person like Abu Ousayd, uh, functioning as what you call a honeypot in those circles. Basically, a person who is attracting, uh, extremists across Australia, uh, making it much easier for intelligence services to know who to look for and look after.

PETA LOWE, FORMER DIRECTOR COUNTERING VIOLENT EXTREMISM, YOUTH JUSTICE NSW: I've heard that so many times from the law enforcement community. But what they're missing in that is the young people that are being influenced. It — it isn't Wisam Haddad who will, who will engage in an act. It's someone who's listening to that.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: By the time Marcus left Australia… his relationship with ASIO had fallen apart. He's now in hiding in an undisclosed location overseas, protecting himself from extremists. He also fears Australian authorities could prosecute him for speaking about his secret work.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: I have no future.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: We've discovered police charged him three years ago, with multiple counts of assault and stalking. He says his cover was blown around the same time.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: What were they over and what happened?

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: There was also an incident which saw charges laid against me. I denied those charges, I pleaded not guilty and those charges were later withdrawn and dismissed with no finding.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: He says his cover was blown around the same time.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: I became concerned that the nature of my work with ASIO had become known to some individuals including several extremists, who wished to cause me and my family harm because of my work with ASIO.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Marcus sought restraining orders, known as apprehended violence orders. He declared to a court that he was an ASIO agent and his life was at risk.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: Because I had to mention my real work with ASIO, ASIO became unhappy.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Marcus says ASIO had nominated him for permanent residency, as a path to citizenship, but it never eventuated because of his court cases. It was at this time that Marcus said he was warning ASIO about threats to the Bishop.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: And at the end unfortunately, ASIO like got rid of me and abandoned me unfortunately. We were forced to leave Australia unwillingly. My children are suffering. They lost everything, which makes them isolated, depressed, sad.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: ASIO told us it can't comment on individuals, operations or court matters. It also said our questions … including those based on Marcus's claims … contained "errors, "fabrications" and "misrepresentations", but wouldn't say what they were. ASIO said it stands by its decisions and conduct. The agency raised the terrorism threat level last year following attacks including the Wakeley stabbing.

MIKE BURGESS, DIRECTOR-GENERAL, ASIO: Throughout the long and storied history of the intelligence profession, human sources have been central to our success.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: In his rare public appearances Australia's chief spy, Mike Burgess, uses every opportunity to pay tribute to the sacrifices made by human sources like Marcus.

MIKE BURGESS, DIRECTOR-GENERAL, ASIO: Fundamentally, they do this for Australia and their fellow Australians. Their secret work protects Australians' safety, security and prosperity, and is done without public fanfare or recognition, even by their closest family and friends.

SEAN RUBINSZTEIN-DUNLOP, REPORTER: Marcus wants to come back to Australia, but the government has a history of pursuing those who reveal its secrets… He fears he'll be one of them, but hopes his latest mission will alert the public to the dangers of underestimating extremism.

MARCUS, FORMER ASIO AGENT: For public benefit. And for ah Muslim community in Sydney and ah people who have negative eh thoughts and opinions about ah Muslims, about ah refugees, about ah ah migrants in Western countries. This will show them like there are people like me who took risks to safeguard your ah lives. I sacrificed my time, my life, my family time, everything, to achieve the goals and to stop those people.